Paul, just wanted to add my thanks for your site. Your discussion on the blood issue is the best I've read on the subject. Logical, factual and extremely well resourced and written.
If I'm ever in the land of Oz, I'd love to buy you a beer mate!
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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a BIG shoutout to jwfacts
by poopsiecakes inim sure this has been mentioned many times on this site but i wanted to express my personal feelings of gratitude to paul at jwfacts.com.
paul, your site changed my life.
even though i discovered it when i was already disfellowshipped and really didnt have the intention of going back, i was still a fierce jw apologist.
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BOE on Disfellowshiped Relatives
by JWFreak inagain...please do not request a pdf scan these are interbranch copies not the same ones sent to the congregations.
jwf.. january 21, 2010 .
to all bodies of elders .
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Doubting Bro
freddo - were you in my congregation??LOL your take is dead on. That's exactly how it plays out with the exception that elder 4 and 2 are buddies with elder 5 and also happen to be secretary & COBOE. Issue dies with whinny elder 1 & 3 going behind the others back to the CO. The CO talks to the COBOE on the next visit on the side and decides that nothing needs to even be discussed. Again, politics but this time working in favor of 5.
JWF - Please don't let folks discourage you from posting this stuff. While it may not be super exciting, its important for those who aren't used to reading these letters to see for themselves the bureaucratic nature of how the individual congos are run. The low level managers have almost everything dictated to them and are cogs in the wheel to be used and disgarded as the higher ups see fit. Same goes for the rank & file.
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BOE on Disfellowshiped Relatives
by JWFreak inagain...please do not request a pdf scan these are interbranch copies not the same ones sent to the congregations.
jwf.. january 21, 2010 .
to all bodies of elders .
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Doubting Bro
JWF - thanks for posting this!
I don't really see in change from the previous policy. The BOE was supposed to "review" the persons qualifications and determine if he still qualified. In other words, if the BOE has been looking for an excuse to whack the guy, this was the perfect chance. On the other hand, if the person is well liked and has influence, then the BOE will say that he still qualifies. I've seen this happen numerous times. I always felt like it would be unchristian to help out your own kid regardless of status in the congregation. I couldn't see how throwing someone out on the street is "loving".
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Circuit Overseers
by Eiben Scrood insome circuit overseers leave lasting impressions either for good or bad.
others i barely remember.
three that had the most impact on me were rodricks (that's how it's pronounced, not sure of the spelling), casino and shepherd.
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Doubting Bro
darth - I've had R.L. Jones before. I liked him but not everyone did. He could come out with some crazy stuff! I remember arguing with him over something and he's the only CO I've ever met who actually conceeded that he was wrong and apologized. I didn't know what to do!
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April KM Question Box
by JWFreak in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-gb</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!
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This is probably petty, but .....Did you ever have a problem with losing your KM?
by miseryloveselders in"misery, do you have an extra kingdom ministry?
" "misery, you didnt give me my kindom ministry for april, i know its only february, but you wouldnt happen to have it, would you?
" "i could have sworn i gave you your km.
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Doubting Bro
Now they have the whole midweek meeting schedule but the articles have been cut way back to one a page.
I was always on top of handing them out. I even wrote names on each copy and kept them in my enormous "elder bag" that I foolishly toted to each meeting! Most of my groups were pretty good about hanging on to them. I don't think I've ever misplaced mine.
My current Service Group Overseer (or whatever the designation is now) NEVER gives me (or anyone else) theirs. I have to follow-up with him. He's a nice, older gentleman who is very forgetful.
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Elders who step down for little or no reason?
by Truthexplorer inwithin the past decade, two elders stepped down in my old congregation.
actually one was taken off for commiting adultery and therefore reproved, but the other one simply stepped down for no apparent reason.
also, in another congregation i used to attend for a short time, i was shocked to hear of another elder stepping down, again for no apparent reason.. i am wondering if there has been an increase in the number of elders stepping down for no obvious reason and to see if this is a worrying trend causing alarm for the society.. i am thinking the past 10 years, particularly with the internet being available to so many people around the world today; but have you experienced many elders stepping down in your congregation or past congregation?
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Doubting Bro
After I stepped aside I had one of those R&F nutbars (a loopy loonies with the fake bipolar) come up to me and tell me how much she was shocked and surprised and asked what lead up to my decision as she and her husband were so sad....my answer..."you and your family - you robbed me of my joy"
LOLOLOL - that's fantastic!
NLP - welcome. And, exactly!
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Deleted Elders?
by Farkel ini knew about elders being "deleted" and have commented what a strange and pejorative term that is, but it wasn't until "wtwizard" and "designs" commented on another thread about it that it actually hit home for me.. one cannot step down as an elder with any dignity!
elder's can't quit, with the word "quit" being as in "he quit his job.
" elder's can't resign as in "he resigned as chairman of the board for xyz corp.".
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Doubting Bro
If they invited the "deleted" elder to give the closing prayer at the end of the meeting, that was a signal to the congregation that "yeah, he's not an elder any more, but he's still a decent chap".
That's the practice I've seen as well. My take was always that if someone decided that he either didn't want to be an elder or maybe couldn't for whatever reason, he should be allowed to step aside with some dignity. The offical WTS position doesn't allow the BOE or congregation collectively to thank them for their service but its basic common courtesy to do so. So this is a way to send a signal to the congregation that the person stepped down on his own.
Crazy and similar to the mob. You can't just quit (that's what my old COBOE/PO said to me when I resigned)
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Elders who step down for little or no reason?
by Truthexplorer inwithin the past decade, two elders stepped down in my old congregation.
actually one was taken off for commiting adultery and therefore reproved, but the other one simply stepped down for no apparent reason.
also, in another congregation i used to attend for a short time, i was shocked to hear of another elder stepping down, again for no apparent reason.. i am wondering if there has been an increase in the number of elders stepping down for no obvious reason and to see if this is a worrying trend causing alarm for the society.. i am thinking the past 10 years, particularly with the internet being available to so many people around the world today; but have you experienced many elders stepping down in your congregation or past congregation?
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Doubting Bro
The standard procedure is to get the resignation in writing which is then forwarded to the branch. I'm quite sure they keep that letter in your permanent file. So, everyone has to state a reason. I've actually seen more resignations than removals and the most common reason is "to take care of family". No one can really argue with it so its the perfect excuse. In some cases, its probably true but in other cases (such as mine) there was some skepticism from the BOE. It seems whether its for "sin" or not, that's the automatic assumption from the rank & file. It's all part of the control (punish behavior not condusive to the leaders)
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The BITE model of mind control: "E" is for "Emotional control"
by JimmyPage iniv.
emotional control1.
manipulate and narrow the range of a person's feelings.. 2. make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.. 3. excessive use of guilt.
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Doubting Bro
I'm on a roll!! Great posts Jimmy Page. When you take a honest look at these cult identifiers, its difficult to argue that the WTS doesn't qualify. It was hard for me to admit but that's the reality.
1. How else can you get people to shun family or friends they've known for decades because the leaders tell you to?
2. See the WT explaination for the 1975 debacle.
3. See any assembly for numerous examples. Also the WT articles telling us about how a brother in Africa swam across croc infested waters and walked 10 miles each way to get to the meeting on time.
4. Shunning, persecution and of course the big A
5. People crying over the new song book at the DC.
6. No public confession until the elders wives gossip about it ( that doesn't apply to everyone but it happens)
7. They took that right out of the WT playbook.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....